 Willoughby's - they try to cheat you. |
| Review Date: July 6, 2009 |
| Reviewer: Michael B. Turner, Hattiesburg, MS USA |
I am a cautious buyer by nature, but I let my guard down on this one. I was searching for an HMC150, but practically every retailer on the internet was out of stock. I called with all the retailers that I could find which listed the camcorder in stock. None of them actually had any in stock. I was in a hurry, because I had a vacation coming up for which I would have liked to have gotten some video of.
There was one retailer that did have this camera in stock - Willoughby's. I saw they had this camera in the "Advanced Shooter's Package." The package ran for about 4K, and included the following:
Panasonic Pro AG-HMC150 3CCD AVCHD 24fps Camcorder
On-Camera Short Shotgun Microphone
Transcend 16GB PRO Secure Digital (SDHC) Card w/ Card Reader
Spare Replacement VW-VBG6PPK Battery (not featured on the item page as of this review, package price is STILL THE SAME!)
Vanguard Dominator 5 Hard Shell Carrying Case
72mm UV Protector Glass Filter
5PC Cleaning Kit w/ Air Blower
A few of the items on that list were ambiguous, which is where they will rip you off, but I'll get to that later.
So after quickly checking the legitimacy of the website (their company is indeed over a century old), I figured that was enough proof and I could trust them. Who was I to doubt them when I urgently needed the HMC150.
I called the store to check and see if the package was, in fact, in stock. A representative by the name of "Nar" confirmed that he had the package in stock. He suggested that I order it with him over the phone because it would be faster that way. So, before I finish placing the order, he tries to sell me:
A carrying case to replace the one in the package: $50 extra.
3pc Lens accessory kit upgrade with Glass UV, Circular Polarizer, and FLD filters: $120 extra.
On-camera fluorescent light: I don't remember the price.
Extended warranty $3**.** dollars, but $1**.** dollars for first-time customers (me). I think it was for 4 years, not sure. Asterisks represent that I am unsure of the exact price. He went on and on about this one, about how expensive it was to get the camcorder cleaned, and how the extended warranty would cover that, etc. etc.
All the products he mentioned were, of course, ambiguous. The only thing I extra I got was the 3pc filter set. I wouldn't have gotten that, though, weren't it for the high-pressure sales tactics he used "i.e., You really sure about that?... Cmon' buy it, you'll like it! It'll be quite useful, you should buy it! Really? Well you call come back later and buy it... etc.".
I figured I'd also mention that they claimed their email system was having trouble functioning. I has to repeat my credit card number twice because Nar claimed that his computer crashed.
After a mild delay at Willoughby's, they shipped it out 2nd day air, which was suspiciously nice - leading me early on to assume that the company's profit margins on me may not have been fair for me as a consumer. The package arrived in a large cardboard box. Everything was well-packed. The camera, lens accessories, memory card, and carrying case were the only items that came, though. I was missing the battery and the microphone. At least I received the HMC150, and it appeared to be factory sealed new. I then called about the missing items.
Nar said a 3rd party was shipping that package, and it'd be here in next week. When that package finally arrived, it was missing the battery, and the microphone that came was an Audiotechnica ATR-25! My surprise didn't reflect that of seeing a Porsche gift wrapped in my driveway, but rather that of finding a lump of coal or a bundle of switches for a Christmas present. The ATR-25 is an inferior-grade microphone for professional use. Priced at about $32.00 It a couple of price ranges short of the Panasonic MC70. It wasn't XLR, and a stereo to XLR adapter didn't come with the HMC150 or the microphone, so I had a microphone that didn't even work with the camcorder. In my opinion, it's stupid to include something in a package that isn't compatible with what it's supposed to be - especially considering how they showed the HMC150 WITH the MC70 already installed on the camcorder! I called about this, and he said the battery would be in another package. But, he said that the microphone I got was correct by the description I gave him.
I knew he was lying, because the microphones weren't similar at all. After all, I was supposed to be getting the MC70 phantom microphone. Well, after researching the phantom microphone, it didn't have an XLR adapter, it WAS XLR. So the microphone that was featured on one of the pictures, which resembled the MC70 microphone (if you were in a hurry) was, in fact, not the MC70. Though, the image of the microphone was too low-res to tell what microphone it actually was. There were, in fact, pictures of two different microphones (MC70 mounted on the HMC150, and another shown by itself). After a bit of research, I found a picture of the ATR55 microphone, which matched exactly the microphone picture shown in the Willoughby's Advanced shooter's package. Again, this microphone was IMCOMPATIBLE with the HMC150 without an adapter.
So, I bug Nar again about this, and he says he'd send me an adapter. I say ok, I'll wait a bit (This was because I was being distracted by family members.) I call him back and finally convince him to refund me a measly 100 dollars plus shipping costs (I agreed to this because it matched the price to the ATR55). I made sure he sent me an e-mail about this before I agreed to do it. It's a good thing I did the cheapest shipping option, because I never got back the eight dollars it cost to ship the ATR25 back.
I also asked him about the battery again, and actually told him about my vacation trip coming up in a little over a week. He said check back with him Monday (the last Monday before my trip). At this point I decided to buy a Panasonic WV-VBG6 battery from BH photo, which I promptly received the next week. Next week, I asked Nar again about the battery, and he said they didn't have it in stock.
HOLD ON, wait a minute folks! I thought Nar said the PACKAGE was in stock. So, when I bought the package, I was under the impression that I was going to get EVERYTHING on time because EVERYTHING in the package would be IN STOCK. So I was lied to. Anyway, I decided I didn't want to wait on the battery from Willoughby's, so he talked to the manager about it. Eighty bucks... That's how little they were going to refund me. That didn't fly with me. Eighty bucks for a 170 dollar battery!? No way! Then, he came up with the excuse "It's a SPARE REPLACEMENT battery, the company that makes it is Powerman 5000".
1) Powerman 5000 did not make the Panasonic VW-VBG6PPK battery at the time of purchase.
2) I refuse to buy any after-market batteries for the HMC150, it just isn't safe on a 3400 dollar piece of equipment, plain and simple!
After stating my claims, Nar said that if I wait, he'll send the Panasonic VW-VBG6PPK when it's back in stock. Too busy to deal with this any further, as I was getting ready for the vacation, I caved and decided to wait.
After going on vacation, I asked about the battery again, and he said he's been contacting a Panasonic representative about it, and that I should wait until the end of the month (which was a little over a week away, If I recall correctly). I really didn't care at this point, just so long as I got the battery by the time school started in the fall. I figured I'd do some more research on what I got, though. Here is what I come up with:
HMC150: $3400.00 (shown on packing slip)
Extras: $600.00 + $120.00 lens kit =$720.00 for ripoff calculations.
The price on the HMC150 seems fair to me, but the extras were a huge ripoff. Here's a price chart were the actual items I got.
List Price Retail
$210.00 $170.00 VW-VBG6PPK Spare replacement battery (not received yet).
$250.00 $234.95 Panasonic MC-70 Phantom Powered Shotgun Microphone
OR
$99.95 $60.78 ATR55 Cardioid Condenser Shotgun Microphone
$61.99 $43.42* Transcend 16 GB SDHC Class 6 Flash Memory Card with Card Reader TS16GSDHC6-S5W
$70.31 $36.95 VANGUARD DOMINATOR 5 HARD CASE
$55.95 $19.27 Zeikos ZE-FLK72 72mm Multi-Coated 3 Piece Filter Kit
$24.95 $8.99** Zeikos ZE-UV72 72mm Multi-Coated UV Filter
$22.95 $16.71 Giottos Multi-Optical Cleaner Kit
* May be $0.00, because I heard about a rebate program involving a 16GB SDHC card from panasonic.
** Since the lens kit was an upgrade to the single lens, the single lens price is subtracted from the kit price.
I included MSRP because retailers normally sell far below this price. Seeing as even with MSRP prices I was overcharged, this goes to show how much of a rip-off this deal was. I also took care to calculate shipping costs in retail prices, so I'm not factoring in any deals that might come with shipping items together (except for Amazon's free super saver shipping, but we know that isn't NECESSARILY free :-) ).
List Price difference incl. MC70: $73.75 overcharge. (you get the idea, everything is overcharged)
List Price difference incl. MC70, memory rebate: $135.74
List Price difference incl. ATR55: $223.80
List Price difference incl. ATR55, memory rebate: $285.79
Retail Price difference incl. MC70: $207.69
Retail Price difference incl. MC70, memory rebate : $251.69
Retail Price difference incl. ATR55: $381.86
Retail Price difference incl. ATR55, memory rebate: $425.28
So I had been ripped off by at least $381.86. That doesn't sound like a whole lot compared to the 4120.00 I paid, but I DO NOT LIKE GETTING RIPPED OFF - especially compared to the $720.00 put towards just that. I ended up paying 88 percent more than I should have on the accessories! Granted, though, I got about 92 dollars back from returning the microphone, including the cost of shipping that was never refunded. So that would bring the rip-off amount back to about 342 dollars using the more reasonable retail chart as the base for the rip-off amount, and the new price paid for accessories at $620.00. I still paid about 81 percent more than I should have for accessories.
It was June 29, 2009 and I decided to call a Panasonic representative myself. Batteries were back-ordered until September 13! I called Willoughby's, got Nar on the line, and said told him about this. He said "Well, the Panasonic representative actually told me it was September 24." I don't know how long he knew this, but I guess he wanted to keep me guessing until then. How futile! He talked to the manger again, and all I was going to get was eighty dollars. I said that's ridiculous, I was charged at least MSRP for that battery. I want 210 dollars! I also mentioned the Lens accessories, which were probably the worst rip-off, and that I might settle with just a 210 dollar refund. He said that this had gone on long enough (about a month and a half, actually), and that I should just wait and I'll get the battery in September. I told him I'd seek every resource to get my money back, as he hung up the phone.
Willoughby's reminds me of the likes of PriceRightPhoto - a well-popularized website infamous for its mafia-like, deceptive business practices. They follow the same basic strategy of selling the primary product for a decent price (perhaps dirt-cheap), where the real profits are made on accessories. Even worse, is that you may not know what accessories you're really getting. There's a huge price range for a "Short Shotgun microphone". Oh, and last I checked, their Advanced Shooter's package was still retailing for the same price I bought it for - without the WV-VBG6PPK battery listed as an item in the package!
So, does that mean I'll seek legal action? Maybe, maybe not. It'll be a hassle, but I'd hate to be taken advantage of for that. I'm pretty sure that's what allows companies like Willoughby's to get away with cheating you. But, that leaves me with an even better option: What would be a most gratifying revenge than posting a review detailing my experience with Willoughby's on every website that I can find that has anything to do with Willoughby's? I'll do that and also post links to this story on forums that talk about the products Willoughby's sells as well. For every potential customer that this story informs, Willoughby's loses out on profits (or at least, rip-off profits). It will take only ONE enlightened customer to more than make up for what I was ripped off for. Now that is sweet revenge - and pure, pristine justice on top of that to boot. That's icing with a cherry on top. You may have my money, but you had already lost against me on day one for ever thinking you could get away with cheating me. No... you've lost against all of us. We are stronger than you, because we are the hand that feeds you.
I recommend visiting Reseller Ratings for customer experiences with Willoughby's. You'll find the reviews are mixed, although I can't tell if they are all real. Trust your gut instinct, don't let your excitement cloud your judgment when finding a last-ditch hope for buying products. http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Willoughby_s
So, in truth, you CAN buy safely from Willoughby's, but BE PERFECTLY PREPARED so you won't get ripped off as much. I wish you luck on not getting ripped off at all. These salesmen probably know nearly every trick in the book, and you may have to do the sale over the phone to be sure that you're getting EXACTLY what you expect, WHEN you expect. MAKE SURE of these things:
1) The price is fair for EACH the products you're buying.
2) Don't buy anything you haven't researched the price of. That means don't give into high-pressure sales tactics, because they may try harder to rip you off if you're an informed customer.
3) The item(s) you're getting are the ones you expect to be getting. BE VERY SPECIFIC. Check model numbers AND brand names. Make sure the products are NEW and FACTORY SEALED!
4) That they send you an e-mail confirmation about your purchase, and that the details match exactly.
5) Contact your credit card agency (or bank, if you used a debit card), and ascertain that the price you agreed to pay is the amount charged to your account, if it hasn't been charged yet, ask them to notify them if the price charged differs from the amount agreed upon.
6) That you have a plan C for getting the product you want, and that Willoughby's is your plan B (I'd recommend Willoughby's as a last resort and for your plan after them to be a safer, but far less desirable plan (otherwise do that plan instead!).
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